Optima or Odyssey

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally posted by Scott
Call me nutz, but Ive been running a standard exide battery (not the orbital) for almost 3 years with no problems.. then again, I don't own a winch, or any accesorizing lights..
Scott

Based on that kind of usage, a Pep Boys Yeehaw battery would have done as well.

[Paradiddle]

make sure you buy your good battery from these guys - amazinly low prices www.batteryweb.com

Jeff

Originally posted by Paradiddle
make sure you buy your good battery from these guys - amazinly low prices www.batteryweb.com

Jeff

i needed it pretty quick, so i just bought it from Summit (their warehouse is in town). more expencive, but i would have paid more from batteryweb if i got 2 or 3 day shipping.

[TJP]

I'm sure I got the GOOD battery (Odys) because I've had it in the Jeep for over 4 weeks and not had one problem!

Merely a test...

Optima (bad battery)
Odyssey (good battery)

Jes

LOL, well look at that.

[mrblaine]

Fetch up your salt shaker, you're gonna need it.

First off, the terminal issue with the odysseys has been dealt with by the mfg. and is significantly better.

Working with a fleet of ambulances with high current draws has given me the opportunity to watch stuff live or die at a much quicker pace than just testing stuff by owning it myself.

That said, at one time we travelled down the optima path and the end result after six months was to return a pallet of dead batteries to them. This is a harsh environment and it killed optimas at a prodigious rate.

Some time was spent with us by an aircraft electrical engineer and he educated us with doctored 1000 amp flooded cell commercial batteries in a group 31 size. Same size as is found in pairs in 80's diesel Suburbans.

The problem with the flooded cells is that we have 270 amp alternators with hot regulators that attempt to recharge them very quickly. That causes a fair bit of acid migration and the resultant corrosion is a mess to deal with both in current theft and physical deterioration of the terminals and cables.

This high charge and discharge rate also required us to use an anti-sulphate additive to keep the plates from shorting out on the settled out sediments.

I asked for and received permission to conduct a test on the then new to the market Odyssey.

I had a buddy that lives in a bad battery environment. Very hot in the summer, very cold in the winter. I put a 1700 in his 'burb, not two, but one. We just wanted to see how it would do by itself. Bear in mind that I took out two of the 1000 amp ambulance batteries and put this one in their place.

I also told him to start his rig as often as possible without letting the glow plugs do their thing.

The rest of it is my friend is not real high on maintenance and we didn't upgrade the cables as we should have to aid in current delivery. So, his starter wasn't the best, high starting torque motor and highly variable temps all worked against this battery doing well at all.

The upshot of all of this is it took him 3 years to kill that battery. Upon it's demise, for his testing efforts, we gave him his choice of batteries to replace it. He picked another single Odyssey.

To date in the ambulances, the story has been the same and the head mechanic will pound you senseless if you attempt to bring an Optima in the building.

This was a few years ago and I'm sure both companies have made improvements to their products.

As a side note, I spoke with Bruce Essig from Odyssey. He tells an interesting story. It seems that Odyssey is the originator of the optima and the coil design is a result of less than refined manufacturing processes when it comes to not damaging the delicate pure lead sheet stock. The stuff is fragile and any imperfection or defect results in less than optimal performance from a battery.

When manufacturing processes improved and they were able to cut and stack the lead into a box without damaging it, the Odyssey was developed and Optima was sold off.

The details may be a bit fuzzy on that one, but the gist is there.

Personally, I have an inherent distrust of a company that won't warranty a battery used in a charge and discharge environment. That irks me for some reason.

There is no such qualifier from Odyssey.

My recommendation, run anything you wish in a sealed battery. The damage from leaking battery acid is much more insidious than worrying about your brand of battery. Just get a good sealed battery and be done with it.

Originally posted by Jes
Merely a test...

Optima (bad battery) (bad battery) (bad battery)
Odyssey (good battery) (good battery) (good battery)

Jes

LOL, well look at that.

merely another test, to bring on more confusion

Optima (bad battery) (bad battery)
Odyssey (good battery) good battery)

[Jim M]

The Optima (bad battery) in my TJ has been there for about 40 months now. I bought it before I knew it was a "bad battery". To date it has winched and started without fail. The temperatures range from 30's in the winter to 90's in the summer so it's fairly moderate. The TJ now sits for weeks at a time with no special precautions and it has never flinched when asked to operate the starter or the winch. It even works quite well with the manual tranny.

That said, I will replace it with an Odyssey (good battery) when it decides to fail. Same with my PSD; when the factory batteries die, two Odyssey (good battery)s go in their place.

[TJRON]

It definitely sounds like if you have a 270 amp alternator with a hot regulator or want to start your diesel with one battery instead of the recommended two, you definitely need the much better, much more expensive battery.

[Jeff McRae]

Optima red top #1 is finally beginning to die - and was put into the YJ in the winter of 94. Will probably move #2 into the primary spot, and replace in kind.

[TJP]

Originally posted by TJRON
It definitely sounds like if you have a 270 amp alternator with a hot regulator or want to start your diesel with one battery instead of the recommended two, you definitely need the much better, much more expensive battery.

The GOOD battery and the bad yellow top are about the same price.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Jim M
The Optima (bad battery) (bad battery) in my TJ has been there for about 40 months now. I bought it before I knew it was a "bad battery". To date it has winched and started without fail. The temperatures range from 30's in the winter to 90's in the summer so it's fairly moderate. The TJ now sits for weeks at a time with no special precautions and it has never flinched when asked to operate the starter or the winch. It even works quite well with the manual tranny.

That said, I will replace it with an Odyssey (good battery) (good battery) when it decides to fail. Same with my PSD; when the factory batteries die, two Odyssey (good battery) (good battery)s go in their place.

We did that to Garry's Dodge Diesel and you barely heard the starter kick over before it fired up.

I think his electric ice chest has done them some serious damage though.

[TJRON]

Originally posted by TJP
The GOOD battery and the bad yellow top are about the same price.

I didn't know that. The only one I ever saw was in Durango, Colorado and they wanted a fortune for it. The rest of their name brand batterys were very reasonable to cheap. Maybe it was a bigger model or something.

[TJP]

Originally posted by TJRON
I didn't know that. The only one I ever saw was in Durango, Colorado and they wanted a fortune for it. The rest of their name brand batterys were very reasonable to cheap. Maybe it was a bigger model or something.

As they become more popular (good battery) they seem to be coming down in price.

[Stu Olson]

Not that it makes any difference to anyone, but I'll toss in my two cents worth concerning ambulances and batteries.

One of the guys in my radio club happens to be the electronic/electrical maintenance guy for Southwest Amublance (you know, that company that won the award for having the best ambulances for the past year....it was just announced this past week).

The man is anal about this job, to say the least.....and I guess he can be when he is spending the bosses money. I wish my tool box was as well equipped as his.

Anyway, they use Optima (bad battery) Yellow Tops in the Southwest Amubulance fleet and with very good results from what I have been told. I can't quote you months of performance, but knowing Harold as I do, he wouldn't put up with sub standard performance when it came to the batteries in their vehicles.

Next time I see him, I will ask him why he doesn't use the good battery.

[Tumbleweed]

My yellow-top experience: used one for 64 months in Jeeps with winches and accessory lights. Then sold the Jeep (with a new Walmart battery in it) and gave the yellow top to my buddy. He put it in his junkyard diesel forklift-the one with no alternator. When it won't start the forklift, he gets the 200 amp charger outand gives it a jolt.
He has had the yellow top for 7 months now. I should stop by tonight and tell him to throw it away!
Seriously, I have no clue as to why some batteries seem to be good ones and some don't. Seems like even in the same brand and models, you get alot of different experiences.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
Not that it makes any difference to anyone, but I'll toss in my two cents worth concerning ambulances and batteries.

One of the guys in my radio club happens to be the electronic/electrical maintenance guy for Southwest Amublance (you know, that company that won the award for having the best ambulances for the past year....it was just announced this past week).

The man is anal about this job, to say the least.....and I guess he can be when he is spending the bosses money. I wish my tool box was as well equipped as his.

Anyway, they use Optima (bad battery) (bad battery) Yellow Tops in the Southwest Amubulance fleet and with very good results from what I have been told. I can't quote you months of performance, but knowing Harold as I do, he wouldn't put up with sub standard performance when it came to the batteries in their vehicles.

Next time I see him, I will ask him why he doesn't use the good battery.

When you do that Stu, can you get some more information for me. See if you can find the average age of the ambulance jockeys.

Ours is around the very early 20's and they have little to no respect for the integrity of the electrical system. That leads to an exorbitant number of charge and discharge cycles.

[Allen]

So a battery that is subjected to heat (90s+) and cold (-30s -----wind chill) needs to be more robust than say a battery that sees mostly hot weather.....?

Interesting.....

Yes, I know what the cold does to a battery.....but I still thought the heat would be worse.....

So the recommended battery for me would be.....?

Extra lights? Yes.....
Winch? Yes.....

Allen

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Allen
So a battery that is subjected to heat (90s+) and cold (-30s -----wind chill) needs to be more robust than say a battery that sees mostly hot weather.....?

Interesting.....

Yes, I know what the cold does to a battery.....but I still thought the heat would be worse.....

So the recommended battery for me would be.....?

Extra lights? Yes.....
Winch? Yes.....

Allen

Sealed

[Allen]

Originally posted by mrblaine
Sealed

In addition to that.....

Should I be worried about what color my battery is?

Whether the plates are flat or spiraled?

Most CCA that will fit in my tray?

Deep cycle?

Allen

[Macgyver]

Originally posted by mrblaine
Sealed

SO if I were to order a Odyssey (good battery), what is the biggest unit that will fit the TJ's stock battery tray? I'm about due for a new battery. I considered dual batterys, but have decided against it. So with only one battery on board, it had better be good right Or I may give a yellow top a whirl? I had a red top in my CJ5 for 8 years before it died!

[mnjeeper]

Originally posted by Allen

Should I be worried about what color my battery is?

That's a silly question. You jeep is red. Accessorize man!

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Macgyver
SO if I were to order a Odyssey (good battery) (good battery), what is the biggest unit that will fit the TJ's stock battery tray? I'm about due for a new battery. I considered dual batterys, but have decided against it. So with only one battery on board, it had better be good right Or I may give a yellow top a whirl? I had a red top in my CJ5 for 8 years before it died!

I run a 1700 in the stock location with AC.

[William]

I have a Catapillar battery that has served me well, never failed.

I was going to jump start someone who's battery had died, and they flipped the cables. It looked alittle like welding, and after it blew about 9 fuses... you get the idea. Still worked just fine..

However, it does have the capability of leaking because it is not sealed. Hasn't happened though.

[William]

Originally posted by mrblaine
I run a 1700 in the stock location with AC.

But a larger pan, right? Didn't you increase the size of the pan to fit that, I thought I remembered that.

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Macgyver
SO if I were to order a Odyssey (good battery) (good battery), what is the biggest unit that will fit the TJ's stock battery tray? I'm about due for a new battery. I considered dual batterys, but have decided against it. So with only one battery on board, it had better be good right Or I may give a yellow top a whirl? I had a red top in my CJ5 for 8 years before it died!

Easily you can fit the 1200

With a little creativity you can fit the 1700 - you will need to make a new holder for it as the battery needs to be lowered a little (learned that from Blaine of course!)

Jeff

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by William
But a larger pan, right? Didn't you increase the size of the pan to fit that, I thought I remembered that.

Not increase, but went to .156 thick aluminum tray to lower the overall height of the battery enough to tuck under the fender lip.

[Milan]

This won't add anything of value but I want to get in on the discussion a little.

Here the Orbital DC (battery X) is cheaper than Yellow Top (battery Y). So the choice for us was simple. That was until Costco started selling the Blue Top (battery Z) for even less than the battery X. Then a local store chain started offering the same battery Z on sale, so I ordered one and ended up with Blue Top but of the starting kind (black case or battery W). In frustration I went and searched for the proper battery Z but did not buy it just yet. By then I also already installed the battery W as it had higher cranking amps (as a starting battery should) and same reserve capacity. Then a buddy with battery X rolls in and we compare. The battery X has less in terms of parameters listed on the tag. Then we notice that the tags are put on by the distributors/sellers not the manufacturers. Some phone calls and we find out the distributors "do their own tests and ratings". Whatever. I send buddy to Costco to get me the battery Z. He comes back with 2 Z batteries as he could not resist not getting one and compare it long-term to his battery X. Then my other buddy needs a battery bad, so I mention a guy who's selling his 1 yr old battery Y for cheap. He never contacts the guy so I get it myself and after a brief thought of saving it for him I promptly install it in our other vehicle. It is rated at even less CCAs and reserve capacity than battery X. Then buddy #2 shows up in my garage and just takes the yet uninstalled battery Z and puts it in his vehicle saying it will take me 3 years before I even get to install it in mine as that's how long any project takes me. So now we have 1 guy with 1 X and 1 Z, 1 guy with a Z, and I have 1 W and 1 Y in two different vehicles. The X has been behaving well for a year and is used heavily as a starting/winching battery. It supposedly started the vehicle easier and before Z was installed it powered the stereo and lights most of the night during camping and only dropped down to 10.3 V (my buddy # 1 likes to measure things) and still started the vehicle in the morning. The Z now looks pretty on a cargo rack powering a cooler, power inverter and some auxilary items like a shower, lights, etc. Not much of a good comparison really. I have a W battery for starting and winching duties and we'll have to wait and see. Had it for 6 or 7 months. So far so good. But it did not seem to make the starting any "faster". The Y battery serves in our daily driver and the starter seems to crank easier and the vehicle starts quicker even with the under-rated unit Y. Buddy #2 has Z battery and only had it for about 3 months now. One night he forgot to turn lights off and in the morning the battery was dead and required several minutes to even be charged enough to start the vehicle (i don't think 5 minutes is bad). After driving for an hour it still would not start the vehicle once it was turned off. Must have been really dead. This buddy does not like to measure things. Buddies #3 and #4 (not mentioned yet) sport 2 X and 1 X batteries respectively. No issues yet. But time will tell. The stock TJ battery served well starting and winching in cold temperatures mostly and survived 6 years and is now performing starting duities in an old daily driven Ford Bronco with a 351 V8. Starts very well and no issues so far. I hope the different other batteries last as long and as well as the stock battery.

As far as what's bad for a battery - heat or cold. I went to Phoenix one winter and stayed till summer time. My battery made for Canadian winters died a quick death once the temps went above 100. I quickly purchased a used but working battery made especially for hot AZ weather. Worked like a charm. Got me around AZ, Mexico, Nevada and all the way home and the battery worked well for a month or two. Once we got frost on the ground, on regular bases, the battery died within a week. I would think either of the W, X,Y, Z batteries would fair better.

With so many batteries amongst ourselves I'm tempted to conduct a test on how fast they drain and recover, but I guess only repeated abuse will tell you what really lasts and what doesn't in your particular application.

Excuse the length of the post. I thought it would be fun but now I see it's just a long drivel and I'm tired enough from typing it to even bother deleting it. So I think I'll post it anyway.

[Milan]

Oh yeah. I guess what I was trying to say is that we like these spiral technology batteries better than regular acid batteries. No matter what the brand. The old school batteries could not take vibrations very well (the TJ batteries lasting longer than other vehicl batteries - maybe the soft coils have something to do with that) and corroded terminals very badly and very quickly (even with maintenance). So far we see no discernible difference between the bad and the good battery brands but can't wait to put them through their paces more.

[Allen]

Originally posted by Milan
This won't add anything of value but I want to get in on the discussion a little.

Here the Orbital DC (battery X) is cheaper than Yellow Top (battery Y). So the choice for us was simple. That was until Costco started selling the Blue Top (battery Z) for even less than the battery X. Then a local store chain started offering the same battery Z on sale, so I ordered one and ended up with Blue Top but of the starting kind (black case or battery W). In frustration I went and searched for the proper battery Z but did not buy it just yet. By then I also already installed the battery W as it had higher cranking amps (as a starting battery should) and same reserve capacity. Then a buddy with battery X rolls in and we compare. The battery X has less in terms of parameters listed on the tag. Then we notice that the tags are put on by the distributors/sellers not the manufacturers. Some phone calls and we find out the distributors "do their own tests and ratings". Whatever. I send buddy to Costco to get me the battery Z. He comes back with 2 Z batteries as he could not resist not getting one and compare it long-term to his battery X. Then my other buddy needs a battery bad, so I mention a guy who's selling his 1 yr old battery Y for cheap. He never contacts the guy so I get it myself and after a brief thought of saving it for him I promptly install it in our other vehicle. It is rated at even less CCAs and reserve capacity than battery X. Then buddy #2 shows up in my garage and just takes the yet uninstalled battery Z and puts it in his vehicle saying it will take me 3 years before I even get to install it in mine as that's how long any project takes me. So now we have 1 guy with 1 X and 1 Z, 1 guy with a Z, and I have 1 W and 1 Y in two different vehicles. The X has been behaving well for a year and is used heavily as a starting/winching battery. It supposedly started the vehicle easier and before Z was installed it powered the stereo and lights most of the night during camping and only dropped down to 10.3 V (my buddy # 1 likes to measure things) and still started the vehicle in the morning. The Z now looks pretty on a cargo rack powering a cooler, power inverter and some auxilary items like a shower, lights, etc. Not much of a good comparison really. I have a W battery for starting and winching duties and we'll have to wait and see. Had it for 6 or 7 months. So far so good. But it did not seem to make the starting any "faster". The Y battery serves in our daily driver and the starter seems to crank easier and the vehicle starts quicker even with the under-rated unit Y. Buddy #2 has Z battery and only had it for about 3 months now. One night he forgot to turn lights off and in the morning the battery was dead and required several minutes to even be charged enough to start the vehicle (i don't think 5 minutes is bad). After driving for an hour it still would not start the vehicle once it was turned off. Must have been really dead. This buddy does not like to measure things. Buddies #3 and #4 (not mentioned yet) sport 2 X and 1 X batteries respectively. No issues yet. But time will tell. The stock TJ battery served well starting and winching in cold temperatures mostly and survived 6 years and is now performing starting duities in an old daily driven Ford Bronco with a 351 V8. Starts very well and no issues so far. I hope the different other batteries last as long and as well as the stock battery.

As far as what's bad for a battery - heat or cold. I went to Phoenix one winter and stayed till summer time. My battery made for Canadian winters died a quick death once the temps went above 100. I quickly purchased a used but working battery made especially for hot AZ weather. Worked like a charm. Got me around AZ, Mexico, Nevada and all the way home and the battery worked well for a month or two. Once we got frost on the ground, on regular bases, the battery died within a week. I would think either of the W, X,Y, Z batteries would fair better.

With so many batteries amongst ourselves I'm tempted to conduct a test on how fast they drain and recover, but I guess only repeated abuse will tell you what really lasts and what doesn't in your particular application.

Excuse the length of the post. I thought it would be fun but now I see it's just a long drivel and I'm tired enough from typing it to even bother deleting it. So I think I'll post it anyway.

Head is spinning.....



Allen