Time to police our own

[Robert J. Yates]

Yep - my bro has a Catalina 380 sailboat with all the bells and whistles so there are lots of bennies. My tan is also doing well plus I can drink a coldie or 2 while its on auto pilot

We have a trip to Catalina planned for the second week in September after it goes back in the water. Probably gonna try for the Channel Islands in the fall too.

No environmentalists or white trash 4 wheelers out in the middle of the channel thats for sure and thats ok by me.

[TObject]

I haven't been wheeling for months. There is a lot of pressure at work. When I come home after work, I turn on my computer, and while it is booting up, I go to the bathroom to urinate. Then I wash my hands and go back to the computer to take care of my home business.

I haven't had lunch for long time. I buy breakfast at drive-through, and eat it at my desk while going through fresh e-mails.

I do eat dinner. I eat dinner and watch TV at the same time. Then I go to bed, and read myself to sleep. I usually read books or magazines. Last night I was reading on history of Congreve's rockets.

[blkTJ]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper

I changed... I slowly became educated... I was unaware of the faults of our citizens. I realized we had been doing it all wrong...

I think herein lies the answer. Education is key.

Many people are victims of their surroundings. If you grow up in a garbage layden sh@thole, there's no way in hell you are going to treat anywhere else with respect.

So where do we educate? on the internet? Nope, no way to reach everyone. TV, radio, Print? Again no, we need to reach all the people that are using these trails and there's only one place to do this. On the trails.

So I recommend a sign campaign. I haven't thought much about the exact wording, but something along the lines of "pack everything out" and "stay on marked routes" and "respect your surroundings" and "or this and other trails could face clouser" and "brought to you by 4 wheelers for future 4 wheelers"...

anyway, this idea just popped into my head this afternoon, feel free to rip it to shreds or expound upon the possibilities.

if nothing else they'd make nice new fresh targets for practice.

[Robert J. Yates]

Sorry Brian,
That moron who climbed over the log clearly ignored signage that was posted often and at eye level.

Bzzzzzzztttt. Try again.

[Rockjeep]

"pack everything out"

You mean Pack it in Pack it out.

"stay on marked routes", "respect your surroundings"

You mean Tread Lightly

It already been done. There is nothing civil left to do. Signs are only good for two things.
1. Reading for those who pass them and already follow them.
2. Federaly supplied targets.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by blkTJ
I think herein lies the answer. Education is key.

I was going to respond to the other post, but you'll do just fine.

Education is not key. Desrt became educated because he chose to and not because it was shoved down his throat, posted on a sign somewhere, or listed on the 'net somewhere.

The crucial point is that he became educated because he wanted to do what was right.

Our opponents for the most part clearly know what is right and have chosen to do the opposite and the majority of them attempt to buy our acceptance of their outlandish behavior with the token trash removal.

Analogous to the mobster who funds neighborhood scholarships, donates to the needy, and helps little old ladies cross the street.

Does that change the fact that he is still deriving an extortionate living?

The log crawler on POR could clearly read the signs, he knew he was doing wrong when he had to cross the log boundary and he justified his actions by using the example of another's illegal behavior. That is as wrong as it gets.

Education is not the answer. Not now, not yesterday, and not tomorrow.

[TObject]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TRAVEL/08/01....ap/index.html

How does a 5,000-gallon diesel spill compare? How many jeeps need to be rolled over to match that?

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
I sure hope you're not stereotyping the 4x4 world just as the enviros do.

Actually, I am.

You people arguing this rubbish need to come up with a better defense besides "lets all educate the idiots" because education has been proven to be a miserable failure and in some cases, a spectacular failure.

You want to know why?

People have to want, or be open to becoming educated. Clearly most denizens of this sport do not.

[Rockjeep]

How do you compair a ship hitting uncharted rocks to a guy crossing a closure. Apples and oranges.

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates

Besides, how are they going to close the ocean? I guess anything can be closed but it will take them longer to get it done outside US coastal waters.

Once someone determines that fishing is too harmfull to the ocean's balance they'll just make it illegal.

Same way they close our trailers.

PS - I'd love to go fishing sometime - give me a gingle.

Jeff

[TObject]

Originally posted by Rockjeep
How do you compair a ship hitting uncharted rocks to a guy crossing a closure. Apples and oranges.

They both f*ck up my planet. Only, the black CJ does it on much much smaller scale.

[Rockjeep]

Were dealing with a different area here. The ocean is international waters. and can not be closed. I have to say the best meeting I ever went to was up for oceano dunes. The general from vandenburg was there. There were also being sued by the eco's for closure. He stood up adressed the panel and stated the fact. " This area is goverment property and they have no authority to close the beach." He then looked stright at the greenies and walked out. There part was done.

[Rockjeep]

One was an accident and one was on purpose. different

[Robert J. Yates]

Sergey,
According some of the more extreme environmental crisis mass marketeering groups, your mere existence here on earth is f*cking it up. You probably better off yourself now so they feel better.


Now, do you feel educated?

[Rockjeep]

I'm done.
Taking my son fishing. I hope you all have a good weekend. Enjoy the trashy trails.
Kory

[TObject]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
Sergey,
According some of the more extreme environmental crisis mass marketeering groups, your mere existence here on earth is f*cking it up. You probably better off yourself now so they feel better.


Now, do you feel educated?

I am thinking how may Congreve's Rockets do I need to attach to my jeep to go wheeling on Mars...



Seriously though, jeeping as an environmental problem is almost nothing in comparison to what is done to the planet on much larger scale.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by TObject
Seriously though, jeeping as an environmental problem is almost nothing in comparison to what is done to the planet on much larger scale.

Yea, sell that to the Sierra Club and their 385,000lbs of junk mail which they sent out last year.

Bzzzztt. Next.

[TObject]

I have no problem believing that Sierra Club carries greater negative environmental impact than the off-road community.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by TObject
I have no problem believing that Sierra Club carries greater negative environmental impact than the off-road community.

So what - they have kicked this sports ass like dorks in a dodgeball game. Not only that, our own government gives them money for winning.

[blkTJ]

Originally posted by Paradiddle

PS - I'd love to go fishing sometime - give me a gingle.

me too. I've never been saltwater fishing, I'd like to give it a try sometime if someone's got an extra seat.




as for that other idea, yeah... well... not so good.

[TObject]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
So what - they have kicked this sports ass like dorks in a dodgeball game. Not only that, our own government gives them money for winning.

That's true.

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Rockjeep
This was not closed due to environmentalist, it was necause of the mad max like conditions. The ravers came in with the partys and drugs. It was also becoming dangerous there. I agree with the closure, but miss the night runs there.

Kory

Yes;I know. I've been going there for a good ten years. My point was about the partiers. The Rubicon seems to be suffering from the same nightly activity.

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
You probably better off yourself now so they feel better.

Wouldn't it be nice if they led by example?

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by Paradiddle
Wouldn't it be nice if they led by example?

Wouldn't we be doing that by outting the offenders?

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
Wouldn't we be doing that by outting the offenders?

How do we go about "outting" the offender and what is the end result suppose to be?

Not trying to argue here. I just want to understand all sides.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
How do we go about "outting" the offender and what is the end result suppose to be?

Not trying to argue here. I just want to understand all sides.

I'd like another term describing better delineation. Essentially, we need to find a civil way to seperate the outlaws from the responsible folks in a public manner so that it will eventually let the public know that just because they see a guy a ten gallon hat and pointy boots, he don't necessarily own a ranch.

We are being profiled in the worst way and it is not a good thing. It needs to stop and and who the good guy and bad guys are clearly defined.

[cbassett]

How about watermarking the photos posted, with something to the affect of, "This person is not representative of the Earth-conscious offroading community". This way it's less valuable to Greenies for their pamphlets.

[Robert J. Yates]

somebody explain the difference to me between sergey posting some boat accident and us posting an abuser.

I have sat here and been lectured on a number of different levels about what is right and wrong and degrees of violation.

so, if any of us slobs can pull down a news account of a boat accident a gazillion miles from our favorite wheelin spot, why then is it not news for public consumption when we are violated?

fawking hypocrites - all of you if you don't see my point and agree with it.

[DanB98TJ]

"Educating" may work for people who are willing to listen and learn, but the majority of the people who are acting irresponsibly - and illegally - just don't think the rules apply to them. It's not just a problem for the 4WD crowd, but it's across all segments of society, all hobbies/sports (think street racing, base jumping, mountain biking...you name it). While these people are still the minority - so far, anyway - their actions draw a lot of attention.

The key is holding those that "break the rules" responsible by prosecuting them for any and all criminal violations they commit. The problem with that is there is little (more like none) law enforcement presence on the trail, so they can't see the violations first hand and act accordingly. Taking pictures and forwarding them to LE is great, but many local agencies are stretched so thin that the focus is on crimes where there are individual victims.

The BLM, US Forest Service, and similar agencies normally don't deal with routine calls for service (traffic accidents, burglaries, etc.), so there is no excuse for them not to follow up when they receive solid information about violations, but for whatever reason they seem to be unwilling to pursue criminal charges against the violators.

The "green groups" have better success with getting trails closed than the OHV groups do with promoting the enforcement of laws. Part of the problem is the lack of solidarity and organization of the OHV community, but the views of those responsible for our public lands is more of an issue. The local BLM representative has not been very supportive of our cause, and seems to be in the Sierra Club's corner.

Sorry for the book - a couple of nearby trails have been closed because of the irresponsible actions of a few and it really ****es me off. One of the trails - Jawbreaker (near Florence, AZ) was one I had hopes of running once I was properly set up, but it was shut down about a year ago. Even with the trail officially closed, some idiots have decided to keep using it, which will probably result in connecting trails (Martinez Canyon, for one) being closed, too. I'm sick and tired of being punished for the actions of a few....

[TObject]

Robert,

As you can see, the post about the offender is still there; it's just missing the picture of the jeep and identification information.

As for hypocrisy. Hey, the Declaration of Independence was signed by avid slave owners. "Double standard" is the name of the game; you just got to know how to play it.

Edit: most of the slave owners treated their slaves very well.