Umm,ahem...emberassing question

[DsrtJeeper]

No pictures as of yet, but has anyone here ever turned their trail damage into their insurance company? How did it go?

Pictures will be coming shortly.

[1BLKJP]

Eric, Sharky turned some of his rollovers into his insurance. The claims were all valid so he never had a problem.

[DsrtJeeper]

I'm thinking it's probably dependant on the insurance company. The damage is enough that i'd forego my $500.00 deductible. I just didn't know what insurance companies thought about lifted Jeeps on a trail. I wonder if Sharky came right out and told them he was rock crawling?

Thanks Jack.

[speaceman]

Repeat after me:

I went into Starbucks for a Double Mocha Frappachino and when I came out, the jeep looked like this. I swear.

[Jerry Bransford]

During a trip to Death Valley with many in this group several years ago, a kid pretty well wrecked up his YJ through some basically stupid driving. He broke his front axle, transmission, transfer case, and at least three tires or wheels were wrecked. AAA picked his trashed YJ up on a flatbed and nearly rebuilt the thing under his insurance. From what he said later, there were either no or few questions from AAA.

By the way, this is where the 'curse of the red Jeep' started.

[Wind_Danzer]

1. Whatcha do?

2. Why wasn't I invited?

3. Toni hasn't chopped off any of the nether region yet?

Re #3, you are one lucky man if she hasn't.

[Wind_Danzer]

I know when I was in NJ, the only way it would be covered (State Farm anyway) is if the trail was actually on the map as a road. I know here in AZ a lot of the back trails are so if they have the same type of thing as NJ, then depending on where you were, you should be ok.

I believe you have Farmers or something other then SF so hopefully they don't have issues with lifted Jeeps.

BTW, did you roll it? That's the only thing I can think of if you are willing to forgo the dedectuble.

I hope that new top/bows weren't on!!

[Stu Olson]

I hope you are OK, Eric.

[Jeff Weston]

William, once a frequenter of this board, did some damage at Los Coyotes once and had it fixed under insurance. To be safe, I'd follow Shalom's advice on the Starbucks. Seriously, you pulled off the road onto the shoulder of a rural road and it was softer and steeper than you thought ... right?

[DanB98TJ]

It all depends on the company.

A friend rolled his lifted TJ on the Sutherland Trail (near Charouleau Gap) a few years ago and his insurance totaled it. Tim bought it back and it's now his trail rig. Not sure which company he had, but it's probably worth calling your agent and talking to him a little before filing a formal claim.

Oh, and where's the pics???

[DsrtJeeper]

I'm fine except for some bruising and back discomfort. Thanks for asking. Thanks to all for the advice.

When looking at the pics, notice how little damage there is on my .120 wall tube doors. Now; look at the damage created by my so called "sport cage." Keep in mind that the Jeep only flopped about 4 feet. I was leaned as far over as possible to the passenger side when part of the trail gave way. In other words; this was not a violent roll. The same rock impacted the sport cage and tube doors. The windshield frame is toast, door jams are tweaked along cowl area, dash is damaged and tub took some hits. As usual; I drove her home.

Click on "Jeep Pics."

Jeep crash

[Stu Olson]

Eric,

You and I have both seen the aftermath of flops and the damage, great or small, has often times been a surprise. My buddy from texas flopped over onto his side on the Golden Spike in Moab....came off a ledge, driver's side tire dropped....rear end still high up in the air....flopped it over onto the driver's side. I ran up and was expecting major damage (I had just come off of that ledge and knew how much of a drop it was). When we got him rolled back onto his wheels, he had a 1" tear in his soft top and some scratches on his rocker guard. Go figure.

Yep....your sport cage got banged pretty good.....right along with your windshield frame. Looks like the impact was harder up higher than it was down lower. How did your rocker's do? If they don't look like they even saw the flop, I would say that's probably the case. Just an observation based on your comments and the pics.

[DanB98TJ]

Damn...that sucks.

Is there any damage to the cowl where the sport cage attaches? I'm still trying to decide on which cage to get and had been leaning to the TBT, OR Fab, or Rockhard ones, but now....

Never mind - I just read again and see that the cowl was tweaked.

[1BLKJP]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
I'm fine except for some bruising and back discomfort. Thanks for asking. Thanks to all for the advice.

When looking at the pics, notice how little damage there is on my .120 wall tube doors. Now; look at the damage created by my so called "sport cage." Keep in mind that the Jeep only flopped about 4 feet. I was leaned as far over as possible to the passenger side when part of the trail gave way. In other words; this was not a violent roll. The same rock impacted the sport cage and tube doors. The windshield frame is toast, door jams are tweaked along cowl area, dash is damaged and tub took some hits. As usual; I drove her home.

Click on "Jeep Pics."

Jeep crash

So Eric, did it land first on the leading edge of the cage and windshield? Because I saw Griswold's pics on the other board and for only laying over looks like the cage took a helluva lot of damage.

And what trail were you all runnin today? You weren't with Troy by any chance were you?

[Jeff Weston]

Unless you've got a pretty spotty claims record with your insurance company, I'd report it. Whatever amount, if any, your insurance company raised your premiums, it sure looks like you'd still be ahead if you report it. FWIW, when my wife had an "accident" a few years ago, the insurance company "forgave" the accident and didn't raise the premiums. This was with State Farm and "Superior Driver Rate Level". Take the money, fix the windshield and sport cage, hammer straight the other parts and pocket the change.

[mrblaine]

Eric, I've spent a fair bit of time looking at the pics and seeing the comments about the strength of the tube doors on the various boards.

Don't take this the wrong way, but the tube doors by your own admission are .120 wall and have a long unsupported span as far as deflecting laterally into the passenger compartment.

If they had suffered the same impact as the section of cage near the upper corner of the windshield, they would look the same or your door strike would have ripped off.

Not taking anything away from the doors or how well they held up, but they just didn't take the same hit the cage did.

[DsrtJeeper]

I was going to edit my post with pics, but never got around to it. I'm not so sure that the cage hit harder than the tube door. On the other hand; the tube door hit first and then the Jeep pivoted on it and continued to hit the cage. The factory hoop hit as well and it sustained no damage. I always assumed the sport cage was .120 DOM. It is not. Its inexpensive seamed tube that may be around .095 wall. You really had to be there to see how small of a flop this was. The main failure is where the tubing turns into flat steel at the cowl. I suspect these sport cages fair better in a frontward or backward roll as opposed to a sideways flop.

You can bet that i'll have a custom cage built now with lots of triangulation.

Stu; my rocker guard pushed the tub in a bit, but never dented the .120 wall DOM rails. This happened right at the end of Lower Terminator. Grady, Mark from Illinois, Roger Thompson, a buddy from Cal. and Bob Pelatt were with me. Mark is the guy you helped install his long arm with the blue TJ.

Just so it's understood; i'm not bad mouthing the cage. It was a cheap alternative to a custom built one and I should have asked more questions before purchasing it. This incident was a wake up call for me and others with me. Had this been a barrel roll on the highway or off; I really don't think the cage would have taken the lateral forces like a custom cage. Everyone there that night felt the same as I do.

I figure that i've had a clean insurance recoed for years and with the money I pay; i'll just turn it into claims. I think Liberty Mutual has a one time waiver also. I'll get the tub straightened, windshield and frame replaced, painted and then install my new Poison Spyder Crusher Corners.

Thanks for all your comments.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
I was going to edit my post with pics, but never got around to it. I'm not so sure that the cage hit harder than the tube door. On the other hand; the tube door hit first and then the Jeep pivoted on it and continued to hit the cage. The factory hoop hit as well and it sustained no damage. I always assumed the sport cage was .120 DOM. It is not. Its inexpensive seamed tube that may be around .095 wall. You really had to be there to see how small of a flop this was. The main failure is where the tubing turns into flat steel at the cowl. I suspect these sport cages fair better in a frontward or backward roll as opposed to a sideways flop.

You can bet that i'll have a custom cage built now with lots of triangulation.

Stu; my rocker guard pushed the tub in a bit, but never dented the .120 wall DOM rails. This happened right at the end of Lower Terminator. Grady, Mark from Illinois, Roger Thompson, a buddy from Cal. and Bob Pelatt were with me. Mark is the guy you helped install his long arm with the blue TJ.

Just so it's understood; i'm not bad mouthing the cage. It was a cheap alternative to a custom built one and I should have asked more questions before purchasing it. This incident was a wake up call for me and others with me. Had this been a barrel roll on the highway or off; I really don't think the cage would have taken the lateral forces like a custom cage. Everyone there that night felt the same as I do.

I figure that i've had a clean insurance recoed for years and with the money I pay; i'll just turn it into claims. I think Liberty Mutual has a one time waiver also. I'll get the tub straightened, windshield and frame replaced, painted and then install my new Poison Spyder Crusher Corners.

Thanks for all your comments.

They tout the cage and it's strength based on a roll by Tracy in Moab. I've watched that video numerous times and am not convinced that the cage ever took a hard hit.

That corner arrangement is why I've never run anything but the stock bar until I could decide on what I wanted exactly. I now have that figured out and have enlisted the aid of Chris Fields to build it.

Another reason I don't think it hit that hard, is that particular part of the jamb that the strike mounts to is particularly susceptible to bending and moving around with even a minor tag on a rock. I'm in the process of moving mine back to it's original location and it wasn't that hard to move it the 1" that it needed.

That bracket is supported by the main hoop and deforms quite readily.

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
Had this been a barrel roll on the highway or off; I really don't think the cage would have taken the lateral forces like a custom cage. Everyone there that night felt the same as I do.

Did you hit your head in the flop? Please don't tell me you actually installed a sports bar, regardless of make, model, or brand, in hopes of surviving a barrel roll on the highway. If you did, we need to have a talk about selecting the right equipment for the intended job.

As I said before, I am glad you are OK. Jeep hardware can be replaced quite easily.....body parts are much more difficult.

[1BLKJP]

Originally posted by mrblaine
They tout the cage and it's strength based on a roll by Tracy in Moab. I've watched that video numerous times and am not convinced that the cage ever took a hard hit.

That corner arrangement is why I've never run anything but the stock bar until I could decide on what I wanted exactly. I now have that figured out and have enlisted the aid of Chris Fields to build it.

Another reason I don't think it hit that hard, is that particular part of the jamb that the strike mounts to is particularly susceptible to bending and moving around with even a minor tag on a rock. I'm in the process of moving mine back to it's original location and it wasn't that hard to move it the 1" that it needed.

That bracket is supported by the main hoop and deforms quite readily.

Yeah, Eric I know you aren't bad mouthing the cage. But I gotta agree with Blaine. It is touted as one of the toughest pieces of equipment on the market because of the video of Tracy's roll over on Troy's site. And now seeing what happened in your little flop the strength of the materials is definitely in question. Because I would be safe to say that rollovers like yours happen way more often then violent clashes with nature like Tracy's.

Looks like it's time to see your buddy Bill or call up Hunter for that killer cage.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
I'll get the tub straightened, windshield and frame replaced, painted and then install my new Poison Spyder Crusher Corners.

Thanks for all your comments.

BTW, speaking of corners, I got my custom corners from Dan Duffy at Off Your Rocker, have them almost fit and have yet to hear back from The Special Order Lady at TBT either by phone or my email address she requested.

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
Did you hit your head in the flop? Please don't tell me you actually installed a sports bar, regardless of make, model, or brand, in hopes of surviving a barrel roll on the highway. If you did, we need to have a talk about selecting the right equipment for the intended job.

As I said before, I am glad you are OK. Jeep hardware can be replaced quite easily.....body parts are much more difficult.

Stu;
It was just a matter of speach and I included "offroad" in the sentence too. It doesn't have to be a barrel roll at 60mph. The real question here is why are the Rocker rails constructed of a stronger schedule 40 and the cage used to protect ones person is constructed of inexpensive and weaker tubing? I'd much rather have more protection around my body. I too fell for the advertising of Tracy's roll along with the video of Brandon's roll at Moab. That type of advertisement leads many people to think that "You too can survive this type of tragedy with the "X" brand cage." No; I was not injured. I'm just a bit shocked at how easily this cage bent.

[DsrtJeeper]

It seems that i'm not the only person who was surprised at the cage damage. Notice how one guy suggest it must be thin walled HREW.

Jeepaholics

[speaceman]

This post is timely in a sense for me. I just had a very long discussoin with a friend about the benefits over the stock cage of a bolt in kit like the one being discussed in this thread.

He was a firm supporter of the kit, citing the roll over vids as an example of when they worked.

I felt that they weren't worth the $ since I couldn't see where they would make much of a difference over the stock cage in any situation that really mattered and as a result, I'd rather just save up to do it right and get a custom cage, if I was going to do anything at all.

We also debated the various pros and cons of a bolt in kit vs stock based on the majority of the type of terrain that you wheeled in.

Of course, I admitted it is hard to not want to beef up the stock cage in some matter simply because "you never know" and that the bolt in kits are possibly an improvement over the stock cage.

After seeing these pics, I'm not so sure.
Although it is hard to say how much the stock cage would have collapsed in the same roll.

You didn't get any video of the flop over did you? It would have been interesting to have something to compare to the other vids floating around on the net.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by speaceman
This post is timely in a sense for me. I just had a very long discussoin with a friend about the benefits over the stock cage of a bolt in kit like the one being discussed in this thread.

He was a firm supporter of the kit, citing the roll over vids as an example of when they worked.

I felt that they weren't worth the $ since I couldn't see where they would make much of a difference over the stock cage in any situation that really mattered and as a result, I'd rather just save up to do it right and get a custom cage, if I was going to do anything at all.

We also debated the various pros and cons of a bolt in kit vs stock based on the majority of the type of terrain that you wheeled in.

Of course, I admitted it is hard to not want to beef up the stock cage in some matter simply because "you never know" and that the bolt in kits are possibly an improvement over the stock cage.

After seeing these pics, I'm not so sure.
Although it is hard to say how much the stock cage would have collapsed in the same roll.

You didn't get any video of the flop over did you? It would have been interesting to have something to compare to the other vids floating around on the net.

Shalom, you don't need any videos to make that decision. That joint at the dash is a bandaid that no self respecting engineer would let off his drawing board for any other function than a CB rack.

You saw Garry's rig in the same kind of flop that has been described as doing the damage to Eric's rig. It landed on a single rock that hit right on the cowl from about 4 feet high. Shoved the whole dash over to the other side.

If you want a cage, get a cage, if you want a CB rack, get the TBT or any of the myriad of copies out there.

Next time your over, remind me to weld up some pieces for you to do some destructive testing on. It will be very enlightening.

[TObject]

Believe it or not, it says right there in the instructions that come with the cage, "ORF Sport cage is not intended to be a roll over device or to protect the occupants of the vehicle from injury or death."

The problem: hardly anyone reads instructions.

I have that cage, the recommendation to purchase the cage was made by Stu in a thread where I inquired about CB brackets, and the main function of the cage is to hold the CB radio where I wanted it.

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally posted by TObject
Believe it or not, it says right there in the instructions that come with the cage, "ORF Sport cage is not intended to be a roll over device or to protect the occupants of the vehicle from injury or death."

I'm not saying the ORF or TBT product like I have is the equal of a welded cage but to me, that's just their lawyer-speak. Lawyer-speak is also why Jeep used to call what comes stock on the Jeep a "roll bar" but now calls it a "Sport Bar". And is also why bumpers with receiver hitches are no longer rated to tow even a small trailer.

[Iceman]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
-snip-
You can bet that i'll have a custom cage built now with lots of triangulation.
-snip-

amen to that
I've rolled mine last year and the TbT sportcage did what it's supposed to do -> save my sorry ass from injury and it did just that
But like yours the roll totally messed up the cowl area and hard doors don't fit anymore (softdoors are adjustable to the point where they fit).
So it's still something on my list as well -> a true roll cage and FRAME tie in points (NOT to the cowl area anymore)

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Iceman
amen to that
I've rolled mine last year and the TbT sportcage did what it's supposed to do -> save my sorry ass from injury and it did just that
But like yours the roll totally messed up the cowl area and hard doors don't fit anymore (softdoors are adjustable to the point where they fit).
So it's still something on my list as well -> a true roll cage and FRAME tie in points (NOT to the cowl area anymore)

That's good to hear! I just happened to flop over onto the one big jagged rock present. Thank goodness I took my new sail cloth top off that night or my wife would have shot me!

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by speaceman
This post is timely in a sense for me. I just had a very long discussoin with a friend about the benefits over the stock cage of a bolt in kit like the one being discussed in this thread.

He was a firm supporter of the kit, citing the roll over vids as an example of when they worked.

I felt that they weren't worth the $ since I couldn't see where they would make much of a difference over the stock cage in any situation that really mattered and as a result, I'd rather just save up to do it right and get a custom cage, if I was going to do anything at all.

We also debated the various pros and cons of a bolt in kit vs stock based on the majority of the type of terrain that you wheeled in.

Of course, I admitted it is hard to not want to beef up the stock cage in some matter simply because "you never know" and that the bolt in kits are possibly an improvement over the stock cage.

After seeing these pics, I'm not so sure.
Although it is hard to say how much the stock cage would have collapsed in the same roll.

You didn't get any video of the flop over did you? It would have been interesting to have something to compare to the other vids floating around on the net.

No video. Just witnesses in disbelief.