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Presentation about the Sierra Club
So I'm taking this public speaking class right now, and I chose the Sierra Club as a persuasive speech topic. I am speaking against it. I am currently doing research, and I was wondering if anyone had any good resources that I may not be aware of.
I think I am going to base my speech on the Blue Ribbon Coalition, Tread Lightly, and I might even go so far as to include some other organizations such as Ducks Unlimited, etc. I have visited the websites of these organizations and have books on them, but I figured that this would be a good place to ask about it as you may have resources/experiences that relate to the Sierra Club that I do not.
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~Mike "There is only one true American sports car... the Jeep." Enzo Ferrari |
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01 TJ sport |
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Re: Presentation about the Sierra Club
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This past Thanksgiving holiday was beautiful, quiet, serene and just outright awesome in giving us the opportunity to enjoy the desert and all of it fresh snow cleansed scenery. That is until the crowds of small OHV's and their considerably inconsiderate pilots arrived. I ask in all seriousness, is it really necessary to arrive at 11:30 at night, start up your very loud dirt bike and ride around the campsite? And, after that, was it really necessary to arise at 6:30 the next morning to do it again. I'd a figured if you arrived that late, the least you could do is sleep in to at least 7. Is is really necessary to use my campsite as the playground for perpetuation your bad manners to your children on their miniature bikes and quads? It is really necessary to start up your unmuffled wannabe desert race truck and run up and down the only flat road out there? If you build a little circle track through the wash right behind our camp, is it really necessary to ride it continously with 4 quads for 2 hours non-stop? If we have two vehicles parked close enough together so that a quad won't fit between them, is it really necessary to ride your dirtbike between? Is it necessary to make so much motorized noise that conversation in my camp is useless? Starting Wednesday night and continuing until we finally moved our camp to a very remote location, this is exactly what happened. On more than one occasion after a particularly stupid display of ignorance, be it riding at speed with no helmet or just zipping through the edges of our camp, it occured to me that perhaps the SC had a point in trying to limit that behavior. I know if someone had of identified themselves to me as a SC member, asked for a donation to make the morons go away, I would have gladly dug deep into my pockets for that. Please don't misinterpret, I truly despise the closure of any OHV area and the reduction of my freedoms and liberties that ensue, but do I really want to fight to enable access and promote the very behavior I had to move away from? Once again, I am baffled as to why we fight, only to lose in the public's eye by getting tossed into the same trash pile as those who lack respect for others and the land they use.
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I am Savvy. |
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Re: Re: Presentation about the Sierra Club
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So we fight, in spite of the idiots, in order that you and I have some place to drive our Jeeps.....and the idiots get to come along for the free ride at our expense. |
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Re: Re: Re: Presentation about the Sierra Club
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Re: Re: Re: Presentation about the Sierra Club
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pooring money down the Jeep hole... |
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In my mind the real Sierra club legacy, besides getting everyone to abdicate their land, will be that they will totally destroy what they think they are saving. Anyone who has actually been deep in the National Forests in the West knows what a tinderbox it all is. However you can't log out even the dead wood, then next the forest fire access roads are shut down and closed to OHV, the lack of use and maintenance makes them all but impasssable, you know what happens next, all of you are intimately familiar. If the Sierra Club philanthropist today were actually getting out to see this stuff they would be in horror of what their money is doing. But who knows, maybe they don't care, perhaps they're just giving for tax purposes. As for the rednecks who tear the hell out of the land and establish a wilderness brewery and scream "I have rights!" Its primarily their own fault. However, why should they feel compelled to conserve the land when the Sierra Club and the federal government don't have a policy of conservation either? But everybody in the whole country is at fault for not establishing a culture of conservancy over the years. How do you do that now against corporations like the Sierra Club, well you probably can't since the burden now rests on shoulders and wallet of the few. I think part of the problem is that we don't *create* public lands anymore and when we do they are just there to "look at". No one gets it anymore, but unfortunately I don't think anyone ever will again, you need negative population growth and discovery of new open land that isn't spoken for. If people are going to donate to the Sierra Club then maybe my only option is to give money to Burt Rutan and hope for the best. Although, I just read an article in the past few days that some group of jerks thinks they own everything and wants to establish "conservation" areas on Mars to cut down on the space junk so we don't harm the microbes Might as well stop space exploration period and all stay home and eat a bullet since we might hurt something. |
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Re: Re: Re: Presentation about the Sierra Club
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__________________
I am Savvy. |
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Did anyone ever go and talk to the people in the other camp to get them to stop?
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Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations? |
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The other part of that is if it had turned into a confrontation of any sort other than amiable acquiesence, who was going to guard our camp while we trail rode? Want a job as camp guard?
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I am Savvy. |
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First, we don't go to the desert to seek confrontations.
Second, any such confrontation would surely escalate into something ugly. Riding back with a cop or on a stretcher is not something we plan for when going to the desert. |
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I was over at a friend?s house for dinner Monday night
and while she was preparing dinner, there was a knock at the door. She asked me to get the door. I open the door and here stands a lady about 50ish. Lady."Hi I'm with the Sierra Club" Me. "I'm a member of the Blue Ribbon collation" Lady. "Huh?? What is the Blue Ribbon collation?" Me. "We defend access for motorized recreation and fight closures, keeping public lands open to the public" Lady. (with puzzled look on her face) "that?s great" Me..(now with the puzzled look on my face)"I don't think you understand" Lady."That?s great, but I'm with the sierra Club and would ??? like to join?????." Me.." We are on the opposite sides" Lady.." Huh?" Me.. "We FIGHT to keep the land OPEN in as opposed to the Sierra club wanting to close the land" Bla Bla Bla My point is that these people that are soliciting for the SC are Stooges and don?t know what they are ?fighting? for, or who they are ?fighting?. This Lady was CLUE LESS. On the subject of JV this last weekend, my buddy almost got fired ! Sitting around the campfire and one of his co-campers walks by and drops a zip-lock bag, filled with gas, on the fire. Boom... There?s more to the story, but I?m not going to bore you with the details. He is OK, minus the hair on the back of his hand and one side of his face.
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Bruce Its just a sign of the times,,,,,,,,,,,, Going forward,,,in reverse,,,,,, ___________________________ ------------------------------------------- fourtreks.com |
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Bear in mind that the last time I camped at Johnson Valley was a long time ago....
What is so drastically different with the JV crowd then say, the high desert, Glamis or Gordon's Well participants? I've been going out to play as a "participant" for the last 30+ years (and as a spectator for virtually my entire life). I've been in many similar situations in both high and low desert, had the "keep your camp IN your camp" discussion many times - and never felt that it would escalate into something I couldn't handle.
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Jeff Some people are like Slinkies. They're really good for nothing, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs. |
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I refuse to limit my life and pastimes on the fear of running into a Chai Vang.
Besides, I don't live in Condition White.....
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Jeff Some people are like Slinkies. They're really good for nothing, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs. |
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I refuse to believe you are so good at convincing people, that after a short conversation with you they instantly change from most inconsiderate obnoxious assholes into individuals pleasant to be around.
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Fortunate for me indeed then that my ability to do so is not tied to your beliefs
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Jeff Some people are like Slinkies. They're really good for nothing, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs. |
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Trying to talk to these people to stop ripping it up through the campsite would be like trying to bail out a sinking boat with a dixie cup. There were just too many of them to even bother.
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Jeff |
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Hmm, shoot the first and last ones in the group as an example t the rest....wait, that's the POA for Glamis at Thanksgiving
I'm just wondering what's unique to the campsite at JV? Even when I camped "in town" at Glamis over Thanksgiving (where there are more people for the weekend than JV will see in a decade), I've never had a problem. As those of you who've met me can attest - I'm an old gray haired fart - not what I would call "intimidating". Don't even carry a weapon anymore (well, not openly anyway). Why is this an issue at JV?
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Jeff Some people are like Slinkies. They're really good for nothing, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs. |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Presentation about the Sierra Club
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Six years ago, my old Jeepin' buddy took me on a trail ride. The trails were unused enough that grass was growing up between the tire tracks....but I kept going back several times a year, taking along friends and sharing the trail with them. Things being the way they are, I got out of the habit running that trail several years ago. Last night, a local Jeeper stopped by the house to talk mods. He mentioned he led a group of 4x4s on that trail just last weekend (his first time on the trail was years ago when I led a group he was in). He said the area is compeltely tore up.....quads being the main element. Seems that they can't have fun unless they are sliding around the corners and ripping up the hills. I probably won't be going there any time soon. The temptation to roll over a few of them would most likely land me in jail. |
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It's an issue everywhere - nearly everyone is a a$$hole now with no manners and less then no respect for other people. The problem is somewhat magnified in JV because: a - we go out there to enjoy ourselves and our group of friends b - there is 30K+ acres of open space c - why do the a$$holes always have to park next to us and always have to completly disregard any common courtesy. I think people feel the laws don't apply to them out there (or anywhere "outdoors") that they can litter, shoot, and blow up whatever they want. Jeff
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Now I've always been puzzled by the yin and the yang - It'll come out in the wash, but it always leaves a stain |
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