USMC and JV

[Art Welch]

I don't know if this is already common knowledge for those of that frequent Johnson Valley. If not you should read up on it and keep involved, it doesn't sound good:

http://www.district37ama.org/forums/...ad.php?t=20012

http://www.district37ama.org/forums/...5&d=1204511827

[NAILER341]

Johnson Valley acquisition by USMC

[ABQ TJ]

The Pirate thread has some good info as well:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=662802

[speaceman]

Why does the USMC need this area specifically? Is it for some type of training that they are considering it? Or is it a "just because" thing?

If it's "just because" they feel they need more land, can't they just move more north to north west and leave the trail areas alone?

[USMC 0369]

Okay boys & girls, men and women, dogs & cats...

if you wish to contact someone about the JV proposal and/or plans for USMC & JV... I'm told that your inquires need to be sent to the following email:

smbplmswebpao@usmc.mil

this is the LOCAL public affairs office here in 29 Palms. However, I will tell you that the local PAO office has not yet taken ownership of answering questions on this matter. All of your inquiries will be sent to Headquarters Marine Corps for answers and handled as best they can.

Here's what I've done, I've got a call into HQMC PAO to try to get some answers on this "town hall meeting". I've called Congressman Lewis (JV is in his district) and this wasn't on his radar at all. I called Congressman Hunter (who was indicated to me might be holding the town hall meeting) and it wasn't on his radar either. However they are both now tracking the issue (according to assistants) and are going to try to find out some answers to my question(s). Which are:

Where can we get more up-to-date information?

How can we get our "carefully planned and formatted" opinions heard?

PLEASE: Take 5 minutes, and call:

Congressman Duncan Hunter
1870 Cordell Ct, Ste 206
El Cajon, CA 92020
PHONE: (619) 448-5201

or

CONGRESSMAN JERRY LEWIS
1150 Brookside Avenue
Suite J-5
Redlands, CA 92373
(909) 862-6030

Reinforce that they NEED to get up to speed on this and have a forum in the coming weeks to quell the speculation and give options.

[Joe Dillard]

Nick, I live in El Cajon/Rancho San Diego. I'll try to attend the town meeting if it's not too far away. His office is only ~8 miles from me. I'll be back stateside tomorrow. So if this meeting is after Wednesday, I should be able to attend.

[USMC 0369]

Originally Posted by Joe Dillard

Nick, I live in El Cajon/Rancho San Diego. I'll try to attend the town meeting if it's not too far away. His office is only ~8 miles from me. I'll be back stateside tomorrow. So if this meeting is after Wednesday, I should be able to attend.

considering neither congressman had it on thier "schedule"...I doubt it will be within the next week or so.

[Paradiddle]

I thought the Marines had all the room they needed to practice "live fire" - in Iraq!

This will be bad - they will use words like "homeland security" and "patriotism" against us - we will be branded as selfish.

I'll write a nice letter to both the marines and those representatives.

It's not like you can just pick those trails up and move them around to another part of JV - they are irreplaceable.

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally Posted by Paradiddle

It's not like you can just pick those trails up and move them around to another part of JV - they are irreplaceable.

I think you said it all right there Jeff.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by Paradiddle

I thought the Marines had all the room they needed to practice "live fire" - in Iraq!

You don't practice live fire in a theater of operations. You practice live fire on bases set up just for that. You also have to have folks trained before they go into a theater of operations with live fire beforehand.

This will be bad - they will use words like "homeland security" and "patriotism" against us - we will be branded as selfish.

I suspect with the upcoming party change in the next election and their demostrated attitude towards military expansion, that this will be most difficult to push through and words like "homeland security" will be obsolete until we get attacked again.

I'll write a nice letter to both the marines and those representatives.

It's not like you can just pick those trails up and move them around to another part of JV - they are irreplaceable.

My concern on a 1 for 1 land swap to replace what they take away in JV will be that it won't be weighted correctly.

I wouldn't trade 1 acre of Sledgehammer for 10 of the biggest dunes in Glamis.

[Joe Dillard]

I agree with the 1 for 1 thing being extreamly difficult to match.

I think I'm starting to feel like the Indians did/do, in a very small way. Geez!

[Gunnys TJ]

My feelings on this subject are extremely mixed.

Half of me says; I wouldn't trade one single life for the entire series of trails out there.

The other half says; 29 Palms is already 932 square miles, I know for a fact we (they) can do what they need to, without encroachment into JV. I leave for Iraq in June-July, and I know I really have no need to see Emerson lake before deployment (theres another 932 square miles of dirt to play in just east of it)

It has long been a plan to extend the base East. There were a couple private party hold outs that stopped the last expansion. I don't think there is much that can stop the Government from switching hands between two government controlled pieces of land.

[USMC 0369]

This project is still in the study phase, and they're studying a lot of land in an attempt to decide what areas meet (or don't meet) the training requirements... all the while taking into consideration the environmental constraints as well as the needs of us [the community and OHV users]. I've been in the Marines long enough to know nothing happens fast and nothing happens in a vacuum. If you look at the slides in the brief on the AMA Web site there are courses of action ranging from 198k acres to 437k acres--but also included in that brief is the option for no action at all. (It's listed first) This means, to the best of my understanding, that it's a possibility no growth will be permitted. (Note, nothing is approved by anyone yet) To me, that reiterates this project truly is in the study phase. As a Coyote I work on the base and I'm part of the training element and I can tell you, in no uncertain terms, this place is crowded. The tenant units that live here must train also, outside of all the units that come to visit us to train. And MEB level training...forget about it. We're restricted from training too close to the borders of the base, we're limited by terrain features such as mountain ranges and dry lake beds and in some areas, we don't train because there are tortoises or artifacts that can't be disturbed. Remember, overhead fire is not authorized and a howitzer battery can shut down two or more training areas by themselves. Not to mention that as impossible as it may seem, if you're shooting long distances like that and your target is a mountain...you can actually MISS. What do you tell the guys on the other side of the mountain?

From the outside, I'm sure it looks huge but truly, there's a lot of training going on out there. Not just training for Iraq and Afghanistan, either. More than 75% of the deployable units in the Marine Corps train here annually, and they did so before September 11th. It's easy to say the training isn't necessary, or the war is winding down, but Marines are always prepared to deploy, worldwide, in a moments notice. We train for that. I stopped by the Public Affairs Office and they said they're in the process of finalizing more documents to release to the public regarding the project. When I get it (and I'll be pestering them often) you'll get it.

[mrblaine]

Most pleasant and encouraging news. I just got off the phone with a member of the steering committee for this organization.

http://www.orvwatch.com/pages/about_us.html

They were unaware that there were any plans for encroachment into the JV area by the military. They absolutely want JV kept open and intact.

That consider that their best avenue for stopping illegal ORV use on private and public lands. If they can re-direct and educate riders and abusers to the proper areas to recreate, that is a huge benefit to all parties involved.

It's far better for them to have a legal place to ride than to be shut down completely. We all know that only leads to more illegal activities.

The member I spoke with says he will bring this to the attention of the other members and they will develop a plan of action to assist in keeping JV open and intact.

I was very pleased.

[speaceman]

Good news. There's going to have to be some coallition of various interests and groups formed if it really comes down to a serious battle over the land use at JV.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by speaceman

Good news. There's going to have to be some coallition of various interests and groups formed if it really comes down to a serious battle over the land use at JV.

I was startled by a couple of things reading the district 37 thread. One, that there was a suggestion to let them turn JV into a wilderness area so they could sneak in and ride anyway, and two, no mention was made of enlisting the aid of all concerned parties that share the area to band together for this battle.

[USMC 0369]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

I was startled by a couple of things reading the district 37 thread. One, that there was a suggestion to let them turn JV into a wilderness area so they could sneak in and ride anyway, and two, no mention was made of enlisting the aid of all concerned parties that share the area to band together for this battle.

Where can I find that?

[Art Welch]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

I was startled by a couple of things reading the district 37 thread. One, that there was a suggestion to let them turn JV into a wilderness area so they could sneak in and ride anyway, and two, no mention was made of enlisting the aid of all concerned parties that share the area to band together for this battle.

On average dirt bikers aren't too much different than off-roaders, there are some idiots in both groups but mostly it's good people all around that try to handle things the right way even at long odds.

But you are absolutely right that a lack of cohesiveness is a big issue in keeping land open. I do alot more riding than wheeling these days and it has been an eye opener. Mountain bikers don't like any of us. Many dirt bikers don't like quads and many quad riders don't like dirt bikes. And none seems to understand that their fates are tied to off-roaders.

The support behind this issue is encouraging as was the response to the CBDs thing with Truckhaven last year. Maybe there is hope. We need an NRA like organization to pull us together but none of the current ones is doing it yet.

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by USMC 0369

Where can I find that?

It is in the first post that Art put up.

[USMC 0369]

Originally Posted by mrblaine

It is in the first post that Art put up.

Oh, I keep referring to that as the AMA thread. but I gotcha.

Originally Posted by Art Welch

The support behind this issue is encouraging as was the response to the CBDs thing with Truckhaven last year. Maybe there is hope. We need an NRA like organization to pull us together but none of the current ones is doing it yet.

I belong to this group called UNITED Four Wheel Drive Association, you may have heard of it (note: sarcasm). I don't know why nobody has spoken up yet. It seems every site I read, everyone is at the edge of thier seat ready to follow the leader ... but we don't seem to have one. Before I condemn anyone, (note: learning) it could possibly be that they are gathering information and doing a lot behind the scenes. If I were talking to politicians, the image of 10,000(+) off road VOTERS might be enough to sway some opinions, without actually having to wield that axe.

I'll just wait and see.